Comments on: Appams in Lucknow? http://www.criticaltwenties.in/economicsocialpolicy/appams-in-lucknow Powered by Webshore Fri, 03 Apr 2015 22:46:07 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Harini http://www.criticaltwenties.in/economicsocialpolicy/appams-in-lucknow#comment-226 Harini Sun, 12 Sep 2010 15:42:52 +0000 http://www.criticaltwenties.in/?p=772#comment-226 I think with regard to the situation in Bangalore mirrored in a few other states it is also a problem that the migrants refuse to learn. In my three years at NLS I have not even seen one north Indian classmate attempt to learn Kannada whereas I know that all my friends in DU who don't know Hindi pick it up. While I concede that you can get by with English and Hindi in Bangalore and there is no necessity to learn kannada at least one should try. I think with regard to the situation in Bangalore mirrored in a few other states it is also a problem that the migrants refuse to learn. In my three years at NLS I have not even seen one north Indian classmate attempt to learn Kannada whereas I know that all my friends in DU who don’t know Hindi pick it up. While I concede that you can get by with English and Hindi in Bangalore and there is no necessity to learn kannada at least one should try.

]]> By: Sakshi Gupta http://www.criticaltwenties.in/economicsocialpolicy/appams-in-lucknow#comment-201 Sakshi Gupta Fri, 10 Sep 2010 06:55:13 +0000 http://www.criticaltwenties.in/?p=772#comment-201 Thanks Anupama and Alok. Anupama: I accept that the identities of the Kannadiga and the Marathi Manoos have been constructed in part as a response to immigration and the resulting stresses. The point, however, is that in UP a regional identity may prove to be more difficult to construct, because language and region are not as powerful as rallying factors as they may have been in other parts of the country. Division on grounds of caste and community are so firmly entrenched that it would be difficult for a parochial group to unite these disparate groups under a single umbrella of language and regional chauvinism in opposition to the immigrants. Alok: I couldn't agree more with the point that that civic infrastructure needs to keep pace with the needs of growing cities. In the face of unresponsive and corrupt governments that cannot be bothered to invest in infrastructure, immigrants are easy scapegoats for problems faced by the existing residents. Thanks Anupama and Alok.

Anupama: I accept that the identities of the Kannadiga and the Marathi Manoos have been constructed in part as a response to immigration and the resulting stresses. The point, however, is that in UP a regional identity may prove to be more difficult to construct, because language and region are not as powerful as rallying factors as they may have been in other parts of the country. Division on grounds of caste and community are so firmly entrenched that it would be difficult for a parochial group to unite these disparate groups under a single umbrella of language and regional chauvinism in opposition to the immigrants.

Alok: I couldn’t agree more with the point that that civic infrastructure needs to keep pace with the needs of growing cities. In the face of unresponsive and corrupt governments that cannot be bothered to invest in infrastructure, immigrants are easy scapegoats for problems faced by the existing residents.

]]> By: Alok http://www.criticaltwenties.in/economicsocialpolicy/appams-in-lucknow#comment-199 Alok Thu, 09 Sep 2010 18:47:16 +0000 http://www.criticaltwenties.in/?p=772#comment-199 Also, those who think migration is a strain on a city's resources etc. forget that cities, despite being entirely man made, grow organically. Cities don't grow in neat increments according to well laid out formulae, and it is probably helpful to think of traffic jams and shortages as the sort of growing pains teenagers complain of. Not that we shouldn't do anything about it, but the solution lies not in turning back the clock but accepting the reality of migration and planning accordingly. Also, those who think migration is a strain on a city’s resources etc. forget that cities, despite being entirely man made, grow organically. Cities don’t grow in neat increments according to well laid out formulae, and it is probably helpful to think of traffic jams and shortages as the sort of growing pains teenagers complain of. Not that we shouldn’t do anything about it, but the solution lies not in turning back the clock but accepting the reality of migration and planning accordingly.

]]> By: Alok http://www.criticaltwenties.in/economicsocialpolicy/appams-in-lucknow#comment-198 Alok Thu, 09 Sep 2010 18:37:26 +0000 http://www.criticaltwenties.in/?p=772#comment-198 One aspect of the "nativist" feeling in Bangalore and Bombay (the "new" names sound wrong in English, just as "Bangalore" or "Bombay" sound wrong in Kannada and Marathi) has to do with language. There's a sense (quite justified) that local languages, with their rich culture, heritage and history are getting buried under because of the presence of a large number of immigrants who 1. Don't know the local language and 2. Assume they don't need to know the language because they already know a "national language". As a Bangalorean, I think its great that my city attracts hard-working young men and women from across the country, increasing its national and global profile and making the city more cosmopolitan. Any effort to stop this on purely parochial grounds should be roundly condemned. But, really, would it kill the techies from UP and Bihar to learn a little more Kannada than just "swalpa adjust maadi"? One aspect of the “nativist” feeling in Bangalore and Bombay (the “new” names sound wrong in English, just as “Bangalore” or “Bombay” sound wrong in Kannada and Marathi) has to do with language. There’s a sense (quite justified) that local languages, with their rich culture, heritage and history are getting buried under because of the presence of a large number of immigrants who 1. Don’t know the local language and 2. Assume they don’t need to know the language because they already know a “national language”.

As a Bangalorean, I think its great that my city attracts hard-working young men and women from across the country, increasing its national and global profile and making the city more cosmopolitan. Any effort to stop this on purely parochial grounds should be roundly condemned. But, really, would it kill the techies from UP and Bihar to learn a little more Kannada than just “swalpa adjust maadi”?

]]> By: Anupama Hebbar http://www.criticaltwenties.in/economicsocialpolicy/appams-in-lucknow#comment-189 Anupama Hebbar Thu, 09 Sep 2010 08:21:16 +0000 http://www.criticaltwenties.in/?p=772#comment-189 Sakshi, Good post. I am not entirely convinced on the point about regional identity though. Migration (especially in to Bangalore – both from rural areas in Karnataka and from other states) has resulted in a great strain on the State’s resources. Bangalore lacks the infrastructure to accommodate 6 million inhabitants (as I am sure you agree after the countless traffic jams and overflowing drains we have seen!). This, I believe, has led to the forging of a highly politicised Kannadiga identity – with no disrespect to Kannada’s rich heritage. Given that political and legal battles are fought on religious /cultural rather than economic grounds, it appears to me that language/region is perceived as a more legitimate tool to fight the increasing number of rich young ‘north  indians’ in the city. The politicians see this as an opportunity to garner votes based on misplaced regional loyalties and to distract the public from yet another unfinished underpass.  Dig a little deeper and all that most people resent is the lack of jobs and the longer lines at MTR! For the same reasons, I also tend to disbelieve (with no authority whatsoever other than having lived in Mumbai), the overarching identity of the Marathi Manoos. The legitimacy of economic stress as a grouse against migration (versus the fundamental right to free movement within the country) is a topic for another day I guess. Sakshi,
Good post. I am not entirely convinced on the point about regional identity though. Migration (especially in to Bangalore – both from rural areas in Karnataka and from other states) has resulted in a great strain on the State’s resources. Bangalore lacks the infrastructure to accommodate 6 million inhabitants (as I am sure you agree after the countless traffic jams and overflowing drains we have seen!). This, I believe, has led to the forging of a highly politicised Kannadiga identity – with no disrespect to Kannada’s rich heritage. Given that political and legal battles are fought on religious /cultural rather than economic grounds, it appears to me that language/region is perceived as a more legitimate tool to fight the increasing number of rich young ‘north  indians’ in the city. The politicians see this as an opportunity to garner votes based on misplaced regional loyalties and to distract the public from yet another unfinished underpass.  Dig a little deeper and all that most people resent is the lack of jobs and the longer lines at MTR! For the same reasons, I also tend to disbelieve (with no authority whatsoever other than having lived in Mumbai), the overarching identity of the Marathi Manoos. The legitimacy of economic stress as a grouse against migration (versus the fundamental right to free movement within the country) is a topic for another day I guess.

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