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	<title>Comments on: When the Boys grew Up</title>
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	<link>http://www.criticaltwenties.in/economicsocialpolicy/when-the-boys-grew-up</link>
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		<title>By: Kiran</title>
		<link>http://www.criticaltwenties.in/economicsocialpolicy/when-the-boys-grew-up#comment-11920</link>
		<dc:creator>Kiran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Dec 2012 08:15:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.criticaltwenties.in/?p=5197#comment-11920</guid>
		<description>We pay a lot of money to watch Indian movies with item numbers and double-meaning dialogues and we&#039;re thrilled to bits. Its the trickle down effect from there into the loins of these desperate young men who idolize these &#039;actors&#039;. Who is to blame then? Until then we&#039;re all just hypocrites.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We pay a lot of money to watch Indian movies with item numbers and double-meaning dialogues and we&#8217;re thrilled to bits. Its the trickle down effect from there into the loins of these desperate young men who idolize these &#8216;actors&#8217;. Who is to blame then? Until then we&#8217;re all just hypocrites.</p>
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		<title>By: suharsh sinha</title>
		<link>http://www.criticaltwenties.in/economicsocialpolicy/when-the-boys-grew-up#comment-11882</link>
		<dc:creator>suharsh sinha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Dec 2012 10:48:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.criticaltwenties.in/?p=5197#comment-11882</guid>
		<description>First of all I must confess this piece was written in a highly charged emotional state. So though I stand by my basic arguments I agree that the nuance has at times been lost unintentionally as I got carried away and at other times deliberately to underscore a point. Having said that I will try and address some of the comments:

Anees – 
1.	When I start with the migration point it is only because in this particular incident the rapists (and the victim) happened to be migrants. I felt there was a clear class angle and in a place like Delhi urban poor overwhelmingly tend to be migrants. If this particular rape case had taken place in the domestic space I may have given that primacy. But if my piece appears to single out migrants as more culpable it is totally unintentional. 
2.	“…because it identifies women’s empowerment as a cause of, rather than an antidote to rape”. I completely agree with the point that empowerment is the solution to rape. But I never advocated that women should not be empowered. My point is that the pace of women’s urban work place participation has been rapid especially post economic liberalization.  In my perception the urban male worker is threatened/confused by this visibility and resorts to violence to reinforce old power structures. So the cause is not women’s empowerment, it is men’s inability to deal with it. And the solution is undoubtedly more empowerment not less. 

Anindita –

1.	No doubt rapes were always committed. But popular media seems to suggest that the incidents of rape are increasing at an alarming rate. If that is indeed the case I was trying to pin point what the underlying causes are – especially in big cities like Delhi. 
2.	And again I am not blaming the woman for finding a job in historically male dominated industries. I am blaming the man for treating the work place as his exclusive preserve and not being able to deal with the increased presence of the opposite sex in an economic structure that now values gender neutral traits like labour productivity and efficiency. I am not placing the moral culpability for rape on the victim for ‘being out there’. Quite the opposite. 
3.	On capital punishment – though I stand by it, it was not the focal point of the piece. It is a different debate altogether, let’s leave it for another day. 

Amrita – 
Agreed that women contribute hugely to the rural economy. My idea was not to belittle it. I just employed a writing style where I put myself in the shoes of the perpetrators and tried to offer their thought process in committing rape. For cooking, child rearing and agricultural labour women are either not paid or paid less compared to men due to several age old biases. This makes men believe that women’s labour is inferior and unworthy and is nothing more than petty domestic chores. Not a point of view that I agree with, but I was just trying to show a glimpse of prevailing popular mentality.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First of all I must confess this piece was written in a highly charged emotional state. So though I stand by my basic arguments I agree that the nuance has at times been lost unintentionally as I got carried away and at other times deliberately to underscore a point. Having said that I will try and address some of the comments:</p>
<p>Anees –<br />
1.	When I start with the migration point it is only because in this particular incident the rapists (and the victim) happened to be migrants. I felt there was a clear class angle and in a place like Delhi urban poor overwhelmingly tend to be migrants. If this particular rape case had taken place in the domestic space I may have given that primacy. But if my piece appears to single out migrants as more culpable it is totally unintentional.<br />
2.	“…because it identifies women’s empowerment as a cause of, rather than an antidote to rape”. I completely agree with the point that empowerment is the solution to rape. But I never advocated that women should not be empowered. My point is that the pace of women’s urban work place participation has been rapid especially post economic liberalization.  In my perception the urban male worker is threatened/confused by this visibility and resorts to violence to reinforce old power structures. So the cause is not women’s empowerment, it is men’s inability to deal with it. And the solution is undoubtedly more empowerment not less. </p>
<p>Anindita –</p>
<p>1.	No doubt rapes were always committed. But popular media seems to suggest that the incidents of rape are increasing at an alarming rate. If that is indeed the case I was trying to pin point what the underlying causes are – especially in big cities like Delhi.<br />
2.	And again I am not blaming the woman for finding a job in historically male dominated industries. I am blaming the man for treating the work place as his exclusive preserve and not being able to deal with the increased presence of the opposite sex in an economic structure that now values gender neutral traits like labour productivity and efficiency. I am not placing the moral culpability for rape on the victim for ‘being out there’. Quite the opposite.<br />
3.	On capital punishment – though I stand by it, it was not the focal point of the piece. It is a different debate altogether, let’s leave it for another day. </p>
<p>Amrita –<br />
Agreed that women contribute hugely to the rural economy. My idea was not to belittle it. I just employed a writing style where I put myself in the shoes of the perpetrators and tried to offer their thought process in committing rape. For cooking, child rearing and agricultural labour women are either not paid or paid less compared to men due to several age old biases. This makes men believe that women’s labour is inferior and unworthy and is nothing more than petty domestic chores. Not a point of view that I agree with, but I was just trying to show a glimpse of prevailing popular mentality.</p>
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		<title>By: Amrita</title>
		<link>http://www.criticaltwenties.in/economicsocialpolicy/when-the-boys-grew-up#comment-11867</link>
		<dc:creator>Amrita</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Dec 2012 18:45:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.criticaltwenties.in/?p=5197#comment-11867</guid>
		<description>Women in rural India do not only cook and look after children. They also contribute in agriculture and allied activities. That this often goes unrecognized is another issue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Women in rural India do not only cook and look after children. They also contribute in agriculture and allied activities. That this often goes unrecognized is another issue.</p>
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		<title>By: Anindita Mukherjee</title>
		<link>http://www.criticaltwenties.in/economicsocialpolicy/when-the-boys-grew-up#comment-11828</link>
		<dc:creator>Anindita Mukherjee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Dec 2012 09:56:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.criticaltwenties.in/?p=5197#comment-11828</guid>
		<description>Bingo Anees! Further, phrases like &quot;ambushed by&quot; all go to reinforce the existing notion that public spaces belong to men and women intrude, in their effort to be included. 
If I am not mistaken, rape existed even when female presence in public spaces was not as great. My apologies if this seems harsh, but this reads like yet another warped mechanism of dumping the blame on the woman; if nothing else, just more dangerous for being relatively more subtle than &quot;she is a woman of loose moral character&quot;. 

You might also want to justify your advocacy of death penalty for rapists.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bingo Anees! Further, phrases like &#8220;ambushed by&#8221; all go to reinforce the existing notion that public spaces belong to men and women intrude, in their effort to be included.<br />
If I am not mistaken, rape existed even when female presence in public spaces was not as great. My apologies if this seems harsh, but this reads like yet another warped mechanism of dumping the blame on the woman; if nothing else, just more dangerous for being relatively more subtle than &#8220;she is a woman of loose moral character&#8221;. </p>
<p>You might also want to justify your advocacy of death penalty for rapists.</p>
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		<title>By: ujjwal sen</title>
		<link>http://www.criticaltwenties.in/economicsocialpolicy/when-the-boys-grew-up#comment-11826</link>
		<dc:creator>ujjwal sen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Dec 2012 09:10:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.criticaltwenties.in/?p=5197#comment-11826</guid>
		<description>Thank you for writing this and getting it out there. I&#039;ve been trying to say the same thing for ages but to no avail. People will talk about what to do with the perpetrator but never the victim.

http://sourcanvas.blogspot.com/2012/12/the-mayans-got-something-right-after-all.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for writing this and getting it out there. I&#8217;ve been trying to say the same thing for ages but to no avail. People will talk about what to do with the perpetrator but never the victim.</p>
<p><a href="http://sourcanvas.blogspot.com/2012/12/the-mayans-got-something-right-after-all.html" rel="nofollow">http://sourcanvas.blogspot.com/2012/12/the-mayans-got-something-right-after-all.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: reenu serene</title>
		<link>http://www.criticaltwenties.in/economicsocialpolicy/when-the-boys-grew-up#comment-11825</link>
		<dc:creator>reenu serene</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Dec 2012 07:52:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.criticaltwenties.in/?p=5197#comment-11825</guid>
		<description>All i have been hearing &amp; reading is about the way our government sucks and the way our police force fail to protect our women....but all this while i had been thinking ...they all are missing the basic point.

This article made so much sense.
Instead of the society blaming others , our family should look at the way boys are brought up. 

Beautiful article.....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All i have been hearing &amp; reading is about the way our government sucks and the way our police force fail to protect our women&#8230;.but all this while i had been thinking &#8230;they all are missing the basic point.</p>
<p>This article made so much sense.<br />
Instead of the society blaming others , our family should look at the way boys are brought up. </p>
<p>Beautiful article&#8230;..</p>
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		<title>By: Anees Backer</title>
		<link>http://www.criticaltwenties.in/economicsocialpolicy/when-the-boys-grew-up#comment-11823</link>
		<dc:creator>Anees Backer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Dec 2012 05:22:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.criticaltwenties.in/?p=5197#comment-11823</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m sure the article is well-intentioned, but I can&#039;t help be disturbed by some of the observations. Although you criticise the xenophobic blaming of rape on rural migrants, you begin with just that kind of account, and in great detail. We are led through a vivid picture of the village as a place were women are invariably confined and told to mind their place, as if gender role attribution were any less prevalent in urban areas. By placing the migrant as the foremost villain in incidents of rape, the afterthought offered regarding the pervasiveness of rape in varied kinds of situations and among affiliated people loses its voice. You admit that the majority of rapes are perpetrated by persons familiar to the victim, and yet your first point of analysis is an imagined foray into the migrant psyche. Further, this notion of displacement of men on account of rising entry of women into the workplace as a cause of rape is just some bogus pop sociology. We must be alert to the consequences that this kind of talk has on social reactions to rape - because it identifies women&#039;s empowerment as a cause of, rather than an antidote to rape. I agree that this burst of collective outrage everywhere in the media is laudable, but I feel it&#039;s also making us smug about our entrenched class prejudice, and completely drowning out the debate on capital punishment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m sure the article is well-intentioned, but I can&#8217;t help be disturbed by some of the observations. Although you criticise the xenophobic blaming of rape on rural migrants, you begin with just that kind of account, and in great detail. We are led through a vivid picture of the village as a place were women are invariably confined and told to mind their place, as if gender role attribution were any less prevalent in urban areas. By placing the migrant as the foremost villain in incidents of rape, the afterthought offered regarding the pervasiveness of rape in varied kinds of situations and among affiliated people loses its voice. You admit that the majority of rapes are perpetrated by persons familiar to the victim, and yet your first point of analysis is an imagined foray into the migrant psyche. Further, this notion of displacement of men on account of rising entry of women into the workplace as a cause of rape is just some bogus pop sociology. We must be alert to the consequences that this kind of talk has on social reactions to rape &#8211; because it identifies women&#8217;s empowerment as a cause of, rather than an antidote to rape. I agree that this burst of collective outrage everywhere in the media is laudable, but I feel it&#8217;s also making us smug about our entrenched class prejudice, and completely drowning out the debate on capital punishment.</p>
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		<title>By: Vish</title>
		<link>http://www.criticaltwenties.in/economicsocialpolicy/when-the-boys-grew-up#comment-11822</link>
		<dc:creator>Vish</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Dec 2012 05:19:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.criticaltwenties.in/?p=5197#comment-11822</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s a very well expressed piece...!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s a very well expressed piece&#8230;!</p>
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		<title>By: deboleena mukherjee</title>
		<link>http://www.criticaltwenties.in/economicsocialpolicy/when-the-boys-grew-up#comment-11821</link>
		<dc:creator>deboleena mukherjee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Dec 2012 04:39:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.criticaltwenties.in/?p=5197#comment-11821</guid>
		<description>Well written piece!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well written piece!!</p>
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		<title>By: Yasser Rizwan</title>
		<link>http://www.criticaltwenties.in/economicsocialpolicy/when-the-boys-grew-up#comment-11819</link>
		<dc:creator>Yasser Rizwan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Dec 2012 18:49:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.criticaltwenties.in/?p=5197#comment-11819</guid>
		<description>Great points eloquently made.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great points eloquently made.</p>
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