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	<title>Comments on: Not So Meritorious</title>
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	<link>http://www.criticaltwenties.in/nationalpolitics/not-so-meritorious</link>
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		<title>By: Sumeet</title>
		<link>http://www.criticaltwenties.in/nationalpolitics/not-so-meritorious#comment-61</link>
		<dc:creator>Sumeet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Aug 2010 08:17:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.criticaltwenties.in/?p=131#comment-61</guid>
		<description>I agree with your point. Representative number in parliament in other places where *decisions* are made (eg. academia, prosperous industries) in necessary. Its not clear at all how given the existing state of affairs (extreme prejudice and inequality) we can achieve such a target. The debate always seems to degenerate to some pointless issues of merit/non merit and the social structure seems to remain as static as ever.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with your point. Representative number in parliament in other places where *decisions* are made (eg. academia, prosperous industries) in necessary. Its not clear at all how given the existing state of affairs (extreme prejudice and inequality) we can achieve such a target. The debate always seems to degenerate to some pointless issues of merit/non merit and the social structure seems to remain as static as ever.</p>
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		<title>By: A reply to &#8220;not so meritorious&#8221; &#124; Critical Twenties</title>
		<link>http://www.criticaltwenties.in/nationalpolitics/not-so-meritorious#comment-48</link>
		<dc:creator>A reply to &#8220;not so meritorious&#8221; &#124; Critical Twenties</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Aug 2010 21:17:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.criticaltwenties.in/?p=131#comment-48</guid>
		<description>[...] Ruchira blogs at length about caste, reservations and &#8220;merit&#8221; &#8212; or the purported illusion [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Ruchira blogs at length about caste, reservations and &#8220;merit&#8221; &#8212; or the purported illusion [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Niranjan</title>
		<link>http://www.criticaltwenties.in/nationalpolitics/not-so-meritorious#comment-43</link>
		<dc:creator>Niranjan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Aug 2010 11:29:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.criticaltwenties.in/?p=131#comment-43</guid>
		<description>I think the premise is implicit. Under Indian law, any classification must satisfy two requirements - an &quot;intelligible differentia&quot; must exist between the items classified and a &quot;rational nexus&quot; must exist between the differentia and the object of the policy. And these requirements are not peculiar to law - it is generally agreed that this is what makes a sensible classification policy.   Therefore, caste can be legitimately chosen as the basis of reservation only if it is solely or substantially responsible for the  defect that the policy seeks to address today. As a result, the assumption behind reservations in education and employment is (or must be) that &quot;caste&quot; is the sole or substantial cause, and further that education is the best available solution to remedy that particular defect. While this may seem intuitively be the case, it does not explain why then caste is the best or narrowest available yardstick - as the minority opinion in Mandal demonstrates. 

Furthermore, the second premise of your argument - that others in an identical position save for caste are not worse off  - is difficult to sustain. You make the point that class is not the only factor that makes one educationally disadvantaged - but, as you know, this has never been conclusively proved in the literature and continues to be hotly contested today, especially because the Government extends caste based reservation to private educational institutions - where class is the main reason that prevents entry, whether through prohibitive coaching classes or fees or otherwise. Therefore, that there are free Government schools and colleges does not explain the rampant caste-based reservations in institutes for higher education, especially private ones, where a poor lower caste individual may not have a better claim than an equally or poorer higher caste individual.  

Two doctrines have emerged in American law to prevent this very thing - strict scrutiny and narrow tailoring, which require the Government to identify a &quot;compelling State interest&quot; and tailor the classification as narrowly as possible. Mihir has written an excellent paper on this subject (I&#039;ll post a link if I can find one), arguing that those doctrines make caste-based reservations in higher education in India unconstitutional,  and I think that argument is true not just as a matter of law (with respect to the Supreme Court), but also more generally.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the premise is implicit. Under Indian law, any classification must satisfy two requirements &#8211; an &#8220;intelligible differentia&#8221; must exist between the items classified and a &#8220;rational nexus&#8221; must exist between the differentia and the object of the policy. And these requirements are not peculiar to law &#8211; it is generally agreed that this is what makes a sensible classification policy.   Therefore, caste can be legitimately chosen as the basis of reservation only if it is solely or substantially responsible for the  defect that the policy seeks to address today. As a result, the assumption behind reservations in education and employment is (or must be) that &#8220;caste&#8221; is the sole or substantial cause, and further that education is the best available solution to remedy that particular defect. While this may seem intuitively be the case, it does not explain why then caste is the best or narrowest available yardstick &#8211; as the minority opinion in Mandal demonstrates. </p>
<p>Furthermore, the second premise of your argument &#8211; that others in an identical position save for caste are not worse off  &#8211; is difficult to sustain. You make the point that class is not the only factor that makes one educationally disadvantaged &#8211; but, as you know, this has never been conclusively proved in the literature and continues to be hotly contested today, especially because the Government extends caste based reservation to private educational institutions &#8211; where class is the main reason that prevents entry, whether through prohibitive coaching classes or fees or otherwise. Therefore, that there are free Government schools and colleges does not explain the rampant caste-based reservations in institutes for higher education, especially private ones, where a poor lower caste individual may not have a better claim than an equally or poorer higher caste individual.  </p>
<p>Two doctrines have emerged in American law to prevent this very thing &#8211; strict scrutiny and narrow tailoring, which require the Government to identify a &#8220;compelling State interest&#8221; and tailor the classification as narrowly as possible. Mihir has written an excellent paper on this subject (I&#8217;ll post a link if I can find one), arguing that those doctrines make caste-based reservations in higher education in India unconstitutional,  and I think that argument is true not just as a matter of law (with respect to the Supreme Court), but also more generally.</p>
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		<title>By: Ruchira Sen</title>
		<link>http://www.criticaltwenties.in/nationalpolitics/not-so-meritorious#comment-42</link>
		<dc:creator>Ruchira Sen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Aug 2010 10:34:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.criticaltwenties.in/?p=131#comment-42</guid>
		<description>Sumeet, I agree with you on point 2. On point 1 however, you have forgotten that to get to taking emancipatory measures, you need political will and that can happen if and only if the Dalits themselves push for it. In other words, it will be enormously difficult without a representative number of Dalits in the Parliaments, in academia etc. This is how identity politics works. After all, Lord Rothschild did not need a separate Israel for himself. However, the Zionist movement needed him where he was so that he could pressure the British Parliament for a Mandate on Israel.  Similarly, Prof Gopal Guru does not need reservation but Dalit politics needs more Gopal Gurus so that they can ensure a transfer of resources like land and assets.

Niranjan, 
What you think is a first premise isn&#039;t. No one uses the word &#039;solely&#039; and no one thinks reservation is a solution. Reservation is only a step to strengthen the Dalit movement, which I think is part of the reason why it is so vehemently opposed. The main reason is that upper caste, urban students feel disadvantaged. As per using caste as a yardstick for reservation, as you know, caste is a reality in this country. Being poor is never the only factor to make someone educationally disadvantaged. (And most govt run schools and colleges are almost free.) Caste is a huge factor and class and caste have an interesting interplay.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sumeet, I agree with you on point 2. On point 1 however, you have forgotten that to get to taking emancipatory measures, you need political will and that can happen if and only if the Dalits themselves push for it. In other words, it will be enormously difficult without a representative number of Dalits in the Parliaments, in academia etc. This is how identity politics works. After all, Lord Rothschild did not need a separate Israel for himself. However, the Zionist movement needed him where he was so that he could pressure the British Parliament for a Mandate on Israel.  Similarly, Prof Gopal Guru does not need reservation but Dalit politics needs more Gopal Gurus so that they can ensure a transfer of resources like land and assets.</p>
<p>Niranjan,<br />
What you think is a first premise isn&#8217;t. No one uses the word &#8216;solely&#8217; and no one thinks reservation is a solution. Reservation is only a step to strengthen the Dalit movement, which I think is part of the reason why it is so vehemently opposed. The main reason is that upper caste, urban students feel disadvantaged. As per using caste as a yardstick for reservation, as you know, caste is a reality in this country. Being poor is never the only factor to make someone educationally disadvantaged. (And most govt run schools and colleges are almost free.) Caste is a huge factor and class and caste have an interesting interplay.</p>
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		<title>By: Sumeet Khullar</title>
		<link>http://www.criticaltwenties.in/nationalpolitics/not-so-meritorious#comment-37</link>
		<dc:creator>Sumeet Khullar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Aug 2010 06:45:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.criticaltwenties.in/?p=131#comment-37</guid>
		<description>You have touched a potentially very troubling and disturbing question for the whole nation.

Caste is one subject that should be of great concern to all thinking Indians, and the subject is way more complex to get a coherent understanding. I would like to add the following aspects to this debate.

(1) Some very recent thorough studies in political science (in JNU) have proven that the policy of reservation has failed to &#039;bridge&#039; the gap, and the resource difference between different castes remains remarkably similar as it was fifty years ago. This can call to question the very basis of reservation as a policy at ANY level. 
If thorough analysis proves, that it is NOT working, do the proponents have a reasonable argument set to justify it&#039;s continuation.

(2) Beyond reservation:
I personally believe that there has been too much &#039;ado&#039; about reservation, and too little emphasis on REAL emancipation, that should be the goal.
A policy framework can neither ensure nor guarantee emancipation, and we need to move ahead and create other methodologies to see how &#039;equality&#039; can be achieved (more importantly, how much? Are there barriers to the effort itself?)

(3) Examples of such frameworks can be allocating direct jobs in certain sections, &#039;special&#039; education facilities (say, like free computers) etc. for a certain class etc.

Basically, I am arguing for creation of new methodologies.

Reservation has already dried itself out, and most debate is either repetitive or misses the real point, and has been dragging on for too long to get to the roots and depths of these problems.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You have touched a potentially very troubling and disturbing question for the whole nation.</p>
<p>Caste is one subject that should be of great concern to all thinking Indians, and the subject is way more complex to get a coherent understanding. I would like to add the following aspects to this debate.</p>
<p>(1) Some very recent thorough studies in political science (in JNU) have proven that the policy of reservation has failed to &#8216;bridge&#8217; the gap, and the resource difference between different castes remains remarkably similar as it was fifty years ago. This can call to question the very basis of reservation as a policy at ANY level.<br />
If thorough analysis proves, that it is NOT working, do the proponents have a reasonable argument set to justify it&#8217;s continuation.</p>
<p>(2) Beyond reservation:<br />
I personally believe that there has been too much &#8216;ado&#8217; about reservation, and too little emphasis on REAL emancipation, that should be the goal.<br />
A policy framework can neither ensure nor guarantee emancipation, and we need to move ahead and create other methodologies to see how &#8216;equality&#8217; can be achieved (more importantly, how much? Are there barriers to the effort itself?)</p>
<p>(3) Examples of such frameworks can be allocating direct jobs in certain sections, &#8216;special&#8217; education facilities (say, like free computers) etc. for a certain class etc.</p>
<p>Basically, I am arguing for creation of new methodologies.</p>
<p>Reservation has already dried itself out, and most debate is either repetitive or misses the real point, and has been dragging on for too long to get to the roots and depths of these problems.</p>
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		<title>By: Niranjan</title>
		<link>http://www.criticaltwenties.in/nationalpolitics/not-so-meritorious#comment-9</link>
		<dc:creator>Niranjan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Aug 2010 07:05:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.criticaltwenties.in/?p=131#comment-9</guid>
		<description>Interesting post. Many of the facts it highlights, such as the present day state of the lower castes, are undoubtedly correct. But to say that &quot;the merit argument is eyewash&quot; seems to me to be carrying things too far. I think it is important to isolate the two premises of this argument - since the argument is widely used not just in India but elsewhere in the context of affirmative action. To briefly summarise, the argument is that &quot;merit&quot;, as we understand it today, is a function of a complex set of social and historical circumstances which includes oppression in the past - and as a consequence  those who are more &quot;meritorious&quot; today are in that position because of past wrongs. Therefore, it argues, caste-based reservations are not only justified, but flow as a logical corollary from what it intends to redress.

For this argument to work, two things need to be proved: first, that the &quot;ills&quot; that caste-based reservation seek to correct are SOLELY attributable to defects arising out of historical caste oppression; and two, that people similarly situated today in every respect but for their caste are not relatively &quot;worse off&quot; than their lower caste counterparts insofar as the objectives of caste-based reservation are concerned. These seem to be the two premises of this argument  - neither is explicitly a premise, but has to be so implicitly, for otherwise there is no reason to choose caste as the yardstick of reservation. And I think the argument fails because the first premise is probably incorrect, and the second almost certainly so. It is hard to argue that caste-based oppression is the sole cause for the travails of the lower castes today - although it is undoubtedly the dominant one. As to the second premise, I don&#039;t mean to suggest that a poor, lower-caste person is not worse off than an equally poor higher caste counterpart, but that the proper question to ask is &quot;worse off in what respect&quot;? Is he worse off for the purpose of education or employment for which reservation is used? The answer is no, because the premise of that very system is that education will lift a lower-caste person out of his present social status. The answer, then, is to use to reservation system that is caste-neutral, and instead measures the sort of disability that it is the business of the education system to correct - in a word, economic reservations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting post. Many of the facts it highlights, such as the present day state of the lower castes, are undoubtedly correct. But to say that &#8220;the merit argument is eyewash&#8221; seems to me to be carrying things too far. I think it is important to isolate the two premises of this argument &#8211; since the argument is widely used not just in India but elsewhere in the context of affirmative action. To briefly summarise, the argument is that &#8220;merit&#8221;, as we understand it today, is a function of a complex set of social and historical circumstances which includes oppression in the past &#8211; and as a consequence  those who are more &#8220;meritorious&#8221; today are in that position because of past wrongs. Therefore, it argues, caste-based reservations are not only justified, but flow as a logical corollary from what it intends to redress.</p>
<p>For this argument to work, two things need to be proved: first, that the &#8220;ills&#8221; that caste-based reservation seek to correct are SOLELY attributable to defects arising out of historical caste oppression; and two, that people similarly situated today in every respect but for their caste are not relatively &#8220;worse off&#8221; than their lower caste counterparts insofar as the objectives of caste-based reservation are concerned. These seem to be the two premises of this argument  &#8211; neither is explicitly a premise, but has to be so implicitly, for otherwise there is no reason to choose caste as the yardstick of reservation. And I think the argument fails because the first premise is probably incorrect, and the second almost certainly so. It is hard to argue that caste-based oppression is the sole cause for the travails of the lower castes today &#8211; although it is undoubtedly the dominant one. As to the second premise, I don&#8217;t mean to suggest that a poor, lower-caste person is not worse off than an equally poor higher caste counterpart, but that the proper question to ask is &#8220;worse off in what respect&#8221;? Is he worse off for the purpose of education or employment for which reservation is used? The answer is no, because the premise of that very system is that education will lift a lower-caste person out of his present social status. The answer, then, is to use to reservation system that is caste-neutral, and instead measures the sort of disability that it is the business of the education system to correct &#8211; in a word, economic reservations.</p>
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