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	<title>Comments on: Save Indian Classical Music</title>
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		<title>By: Aksh</title>
		<link>http://www.criticaltwenties.in/philosophyreligionculture/save-indian-classical-music#comment-12744</link>
		<dc:creator>Aksh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Feb 2013 19:44:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.criticaltwenties.in/?p=701#comment-12744</guid>
		<description>Sir,
It is a very deep and a meaningful article and I completely agree with your worry of saving the traditional Indian art forms. Sir, I am a fourth year architecture student and need some help with the music art forms . I ll be grateful if u can provide me with some knowledge about some forms of Indian music which have declined over the years and they should or can be revived. This will be of great help to me.

Thankyou.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sir,<br />
It is a very deep and a meaningful article and I completely agree with your worry of saving the traditional Indian art forms. Sir, I am a fourth year architecture student and need some help with the music art forms . I ll be grateful if u can provide me with some knowledge about some forms of Indian music which have declined over the years and they should or can be revived. This will be of great help to me.</p>
<p>Thankyou.</p>
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		<title>By: Rahul Joseph</title>
		<link>http://www.criticaltwenties.in/philosophyreligionculture/save-indian-classical-music#comment-9869</link>
		<dc:creator>Rahul Joseph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Nov 2011 18:07:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.criticaltwenties.in/?p=701#comment-9869</guid>
		<description>Hi Subra,

This is an absolutely incredible article. I completely concur with the concern that you&#039;ve raised. Being an 18 year old myself, I notice similar things around me. Most of my friends/mates of my age group are quite negligent of classical music. They say that they prefer listening to modern western music. But, the fact is that they force themselves into listening to it just because they feel that its &quot;cool&quot;. They&#039;re far from admiring or even understanding the aesthetics or beauty of that music. Some have the earphones on merely because they see others do it and its cool to own an ipod full of &#039;english&#039; music as they put it. Its quite a shame. Well, obviously all of them arent like that, but a major percentage is. I get shocked when I hear that they are not even aware of the legends of our bollywood music industry like Kishore Kumar, Mohammad Rafi, Asha Bhosle..etc. Then, how can I expect them to know greats of classical world like Pandit Bhimsen Joshi or Pandit Jasraj or Nusrat fateh ali khan. 
   I believe that alot of our youth is subconsciously deprived of quality music. Sadly, they are keeping themselves away (due to their lack of exposure to our rich classical music). And so is the case with Ghazals now. The youth doesnt understand the meaing of &quot;soulful&quot; music. They dont have that word in their dictionaries.
 Its imperative that our youth awakens and realize the beauty of classical music. They need to realize what quality music is. 
  It hurts when such divine music of our country gets neglected. I agree our composers are completely aware and they wouldnt mind composing classically inspired music, but the question that often creeps in their minds(which actually prevents them from making such music) is that &quot;Would the young generation accept it?&quot;. I think answer is &quot;Yes, they would definitely start to, sooner or later, as they&#039;re more and more exposed.  Anways, i do believe the time would come when the youth would start to realize this. 
   I mean how can someone not admire and get bedazzled by these videos? -----&gt;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InSe9MVo6uA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ow9Cr11greQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rM2NJzzpV8U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Zi5-35XK4s</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Subra,</p>
<p>This is an absolutely incredible article. I completely concur with the concern that you&#8217;ve raised. Being an 18 year old myself, I notice similar things around me. Most of my friends/mates of my age group are quite negligent of classical music. They say that they prefer listening to modern western music. But, the fact is that they force themselves into listening to it just because they feel that its &#8220;cool&#8221;. They&#8217;re far from admiring or even understanding the aesthetics or beauty of that music. Some have the earphones on merely because they see others do it and its cool to own an ipod full of &#8216;english&#8217; music as they put it. Its quite a shame. Well, obviously all of them arent like that, but a major percentage is. I get shocked when I hear that they are not even aware of the legends of our bollywood music industry like Kishore Kumar, Mohammad Rafi, Asha Bhosle..etc. Then, how can I expect them to know greats of classical world like Pandit Bhimsen Joshi or Pandit Jasraj or Nusrat fateh ali khan.<br />
   I believe that alot of our youth is subconsciously deprived of quality music. Sadly, they are keeping themselves away (due to their lack of exposure to our rich classical music). And so is the case with Ghazals now. The youth doesnt understand the meaing of &#8220;soulful&#8221; music. They dont have that word in their dictionaries.<br />
 Its imperative that our youth awakens and realize the beauty of classical music. They need to realize what quality music is.<br />
  It hurts when such divine music of our country gets neglected. I agree our composers are completely aware and they wouldnt mind composing classically inspired music, but the question that often creeps in their minds(which actually prevents them from making such music) is that &#8220;Would the young generation accept it?&#8221;. I think answer is &#8220;Yes, they would definitely start to, sooner or later, as they&#8217;re more and more exposed.  Anways, i do believe the time would come when the youth would start to realize this.<br />
   I mean how can someone not admire and get bedazzled by these videos? &#8212;&#8211;&gt;<br />
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InSe9MVo6uA" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InSe9MVo6uA</a><br />
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ow9Cr11greQ" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ow9Cr11greQ</a><br />
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rM2NJzzpV8U" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rM2NJzzpV8U</a><br />
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Zi5-35XK4s" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Zi5-35XK4s</a></p>
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		<title>By: Suhrith</title>
		<link>http://www.criticaltwenties.in/philosophyreligionculture/save-indian-classical-music#comment-2714</link>
		<dc:creator>Suhrith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Mar 2011 12:41:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.criticaltwenties.in/?p=701#comment-2714</guid>
		<description>The author, in this piece, suggests a way to save classical music. http://www.runofplay.com/2011/02/28/on-soundtracks/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The author, in this piece, suggests a way to save classical music. <a href="http://www.runofplay.com/2011/02/28/on-soundtracks/" rel="nofollow">http://www.runofplay.com/2011/02/28/on-soundtracks/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Prabha Prakash</title>
		<link>http://www.criticaltwenties.in/philosophyreligionculture/save-indian-classical-music#comment-468</link>
		<dc:creator>Prabha Prakash</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Oct 2010 16:03:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.criticaltwenties.in/?p=701#comment-468</guid>
		<description>Your lamenting cry for action ( re Clasical Music) has come out loud and clear. I hope, sincerely hope, that this will draw more people to join in taking the concern to the next level (if not something more).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your lamenting cry for action ( re Clasical Music) has come out loud and clear. I hope, sincerely hope, that this will draw more people to join in taking the concern to the next level (if not something more).</p>
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		<title>By: Suhrith</title>
		<link>http://www.criticaltwenties.in/philosophyreligionculture/save-indian-classical-music#comment-251</link>
		<dc:creator>Suhrith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Sep 2010 07:56:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.criticaltwenties.in/?p=701#comment-251</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s interesting you say that, because T.M. Krishna recently gave a talk at my college and he said the lyrics, to him at least, is not of much importance. I don&#039;t think the music needs to be rendered in a non-devotional manner, but I suppose it&#039;s not necessary for the musician to be necessarily devotional. I may be wrong, but a musician in someways is like an actor. In any event these compositions were set in a certain milieu and it&#039;s quite impossible for a musician to render the music as was meant by the composer. That being the case, I&#039;d imagine that Indian classical music could also be tweaked to suit a secular setting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s interesting you say that, because T.M. Krishna recently gave a talk at my college and he said the lyrics, to him at least, is not of much importance. I don&#8217;t think the music needs to be rendered in a non-devotional manner, but I suppose it&#8217;s not necessary for the musician to be necessarily devotional. I may be wrong, but a musician in someways is like an actor. In any event these compositions were set in a certain milieu and it&#8217;s quite impossible for a musician to render the music as was meant by the composer. That being the case, I&#8217;d imagine that Indian classical music could also be tweaked to suit a secular setting.</p>
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		<title>By: Subramanian</title>
		<link>http://www.criticaltwenties.in/philosophyreligionculture/save-indian-classical-music#comment-249</link>
		<dc:creator>Subramanian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Sep 2010 14:56:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.criticaltwenties.in/?p=701#comment-249</guid>
		<description>Suhrith- Thanks!  I agree with everything you say. I might have overemphasised the requirement of practice. I think what is required is a willingness to get over the initial feeling of incomprehension (and resultant boredom and cluelessness) and listen to the music repeatedly. It is bound to attract you.

Harini - You have almost stolen all my ideas for the subsequent piece! I was going to write about why western classical music is considered cool while indian classical is not. On your other point,  I am not sure if you can secularise Indian classical music and not lose its very core. For instance the devotional grandeur of Jagadhodharanaa will never be replaced by a sort of secularised atheistic rendering of the composition. Even if one does not understand the language it is clear that they are meant in praise and adoration of some god or the other. Since most of the music especially in the carnatic tradition have their origin in the devotional ecstasy of the composer-saints - it might ruin the very soul of the music if one were to try and render it somehow non-devotional. But I may be wrong - for instance most of the compositions of the western composers were meant as chruch music but they seem to have made the journey to a  more secular setting. I dont know really!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Suhrith- Thanks!  I agree with everything you say. I might have overemphasised the requirement of practice. I think what is required is a willingness to get over the initial feeling of incomprehension (and resultant boredom and cluelessness) and listen to the music repeatedly. It is bound to attract you.</p>
<p>Harini &#8211; You have almost stolen all my ideas for the subsequent piece! I was going to write about why western classical music is considered cool while indian classical is not. On your other point,  I am not sure if you can secularise Indian classical music and not lose its very core. For instance the devotional grandeur of Jagadhodharanaa will never be replaced by a sort of secularised atheistic rendering of the composition. Even if one does not understand the language it is clear that they are meant in praise and adoration of some god or the other. Since most of the music especially in the carnatic tradition have their origin in the devotional ecstasy of the composer-saints &#8211; it might ruin the very soul of the music if one were to try and render it somehow non-devotional. But I may be wrong &#8211; for instance most of the compositions of the western composers were meant as chruch music but they seem to have made the journey to a  more secular setting. I dont know really!</p>
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		<title>By: Harini</title>
		<link>http://www.criticaltwenties.in/philosophyreligionculture/save-indian-classical-music#comment-225</link>
		<dc:creator>Harini</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Sep 2010 15:19:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.criticaltwenties.in/?p=701#comment-225</guid>
		<description>Subramanian- I agree that the elitism in classical music is due to the attempts by listeners etc. to project it as such, but still, the fact that classical music is not inherently opposed to mass popularization doesn&#039;t help us in finding a solution. Also, comparisons with the popularity of western classical music has to be seen in the context of the balance of power in the world and what people are conditioned to believe is aspirational. Therefore being able to talk at length about and critique say Bach is seen to be a more valued skill that holding forth on M.S. This does not apply to all audiences but it is perception at play largely. So, if we must rescue these dying traditions from ignominy the idea has to be to try and make them seem less pedantic and more works of art that all can enjoy. Also a large part of the music is religious and may not appeal to atheists so here the idea is to divorce the religious overtones from the songs itself. I was reading in this Sundays paper about how a small hamlet in karnataka has managed to introduce villagers to Shakespeare by dubbing and enacting his plays. While puritans of classical music may frown at any modifications I feel the future lies in accepting that while traditional songs etc must be sung a certain way, collaborations and fusions apart from incorporating difference sounds while using the same metre etc are the ways to stay relevant.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Subramanian- I agree that the elitism in classical music is due to the attempts by listeners etc. to project it as such, but still, the fact that classical music is not inherently opposed to mass popularization doesn&#8217;t help us in finding a solution. Also, comparisons with the popularity of western classical music has to be seen in the context of the balance of power in the world and what people are conditioned to believe is aspirational. Therefore being able to talk at length about and critique say Bach is seen to be a more valued skill that holding forth on M.S. This does not apply to all audiences but it is perception at play largely. So, if we must rescue these dying traditions from ignominy the idea has to be to try and make them seem less pedantic and more works of art that all can enjoy. Also a large part of the music is religious and may not appeal to atheists so here the idea is to divorce the religious overtones from the songs itself. I was reading in this Sundays paper about how a small hamlet in karnataka has managed to introduce villagers to Shakespeare by dubbing and enacting his plays. While puritans of classical music may frown at any modifications I feel the future lies in accepting that while traditional songs etc must be sung a certain way, collaborations and fusions apart from incorporating difference sounds while using the same metre etc are the ways to stay relevant.</p>
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		<title>By: Suhrith</title>
		<link>http://www.criticaltwenties.in/philosophyreligionculture/save-indian-classical-music#comment-224</link>
		<dc:creator>Suhrith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Sep 2010 04:53:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.criticaltwenties.in/?p=701#comment-224</guid>
		<description>Subra,

Great piece and you make a lot of valid points. I think it&#039;s important that interest in classical music be invigorated in people in their critical twenties. That is perhaps the best way to ensure or at least give a chance for classical music to regain its position as the preeminent musical expression of the country. I do however, disagree with you that even to appreciate and to be appropriately equipped to appreciate Indian classical music one requires a lot of practice and time. I don&#039;t think one needs to be a practicing musician or one who is trained in music to appreciate classical music. Maybe it will take a certain amount of time, in terms of listening to the form of music, to understand its finer nuances. But I think one can appreciate it regardless of whether one is trained in it or not. As far as the technicalities of it is concerned, that again I believe can be picked up over the course of time without necessarily undergoing formal training. And which is why, I think it&#039;s important to promote the form as something which is capable of being enjoyed by everyone and not restricted to a select section. As to how you make it &#039;cool&#039;, I look forward to reading your next post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Subra,</p>
<p>Great piece and you make a lot of valid points. I think it&#8217;s important that interest in classical music be invigorated in people in their critical twenties. That is perhaps the best way to ensure or at least give a chance for classical music to regain its position as the preeminent musical expression of the country. I do however, disagree with you that even to appreciate and to be appropriately equipped to appreciate Indian classical music one requires a lot of practice and time. I don&#8217;t think one needs to be a practicing musician or one who is trained in music to appreciate classical music. Maybe it will take a certain amount of time, in terms of listening to the form of music, to understand its finer nuances. But I think one can appreciate it regardless of whether one is trained in it or not. As far as the technicalities of it is concerned, that again I believe can be picked up over the course of time without necessarily undergoing formal training. And which is why, I think it&#8217;s important to promote the form as something which is capable of being enjoyed by everyone and not restricted to a select section. As to how you make it &#8216;cool&#8217;, I look forward to reading your next post.</p>
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		<title>By: Subramanian</title>
		<link>http://www.criticaltwenties.in/philosophyreligionculture/save-indian-classical-music#comment-204</link>
		<dc:creator>Subramanian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Sep 2010 15:18:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.criticaltwenties.in/?p=701#comment-204</guid>
		<description>Rakesh: Thank you so much for your illuminating comments. As you will no doubt agree, my piece was intended more to provoke rather than to settle with any degree of finality the cause for the deline in the importance of classcial music. Provoke precisely the sort of nuanced response your comment provides. On your point that the master composers of Hindi music might have actually done more to increase the curiosity of the listeners in classical music- I must confess I followed the same path. In fact Madan Mohan and Naushad did more to pique my own interest than any other composer. 2 heavily classical samples here:

Woh Chup Rahen to (Madan Mohan - Lata Mangeshkar)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LV9mBZXG3mo 

Mohe Panghat pe (Naushad - Lata Mangeshkar)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJOkkUOU7UQ

However, I dont know if at a general level the increased popularity of bollywood music furthered the cause of classical music. Once it became popular, I think Bollywood music became the pre-eminent choice for any youngster who wanted to become a famous musician. It is this shift in public perception I was talking about in my piece and not disputing the fact that many of the composers drew heavily on the classical tradition.

Swaroop: Many thanks for your comments. I agree entirely and probably even more vehemently with your points in relation to the influence of brahmins on carnatic music. 

For those readers who are interested, here is the reference to the book Swaroop mentioned: From the Tanjore Court to the Madras Music Academy. Author(s) : Lakshmi Subramanian (Oxford University Press, 2006)

And here are some samples of Brinda Amma (singing an almost entirely unaccompanied Merusamana (Composer: Swami Thyagaraja, Raga: Mayamalavagowla).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gYUmoGanpI</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rakesh: Thank you so much for your illuminating comments. As you will no doubt agree, my piece was intended more to provoke rather than to settle with any degree of finality the cause for the deline in the importance of classcial music. Provoke precisely the sort of nuanced response your comment provides. On your point that the master composers of Hindi music might have actually done more to increase the curiosity of the listeners in classical music- I must confess I followed the same path. In fact Madan Mohan and Naushad did more to pique my own interest than any other composer. 2 heavily classical samples here:</p>
<p>Woh Chup Rahen to (Madan Mohan &#8211; Lata Mangeshkar)<br />
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LV9mBZXG3mo" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LV9mBZXG3mo</a> </p>
<p>Mohe Panghat pe (Naushad &#8211; Lata Mangeshkar)<br />
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJOkkUOU7UQ" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJOkkUOU7UQ</a></p>
<p>However, I dont know if at a general level the increased popularity of bollywood music furthered the cause of classical music. Once it became popular, I think Bollywood music became the pre-eminent choice for any youngster who wanted to become a famous musician. It is this shift in public perception I was talking about in my piece and not disputing the fact that many of the composers drew heavily on the classical tradition.</p>
<p>Swaroop: Many thanks for your comments. I agree entirely and probably even more vehemently with your points in relation to the influence of brahmins on carnatic music. </p>
<p>For those readers who are interested, here is the reference to the book Swaroop mentioned: From the Tanjore Court to the Madras Music Academy. Author(s) : Lakshmi Subramanian (Oxford University Press, 2006)</p>
<p>And here are some samples of Brinda Amma (singing an almost entirely unaccompanied Merusamana (Composer: Swami Thyagaraja, Raga: Mayamalavagowla).<br />
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gYUmoGanpI" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gYUmoGanpI</a></p>
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		<title>By: aandthirtyeights</title>
		<link>http://www.criticaltwenties.in/philosophyreligionculture/save-indian-classical-music#comment-192</link>
		<dc:creator>aandthirtyeights</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Sep 2010 12:24:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.criticaltwenties.in/?p=701#comment-192</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know enough about the history of Hindustani music to comment, and so I&#039;ll stay away from that part of the debate. 

Carnatic music lost its popular appeal almost entirely due to Brahmin elitism. Briefly, with the coming of the sabha culture, and many of the organisers of the sabha being Brahmins, the temple traditions of Carnatic music (particularly, the nadaswaram tradition and the Devadasi tradition) that were dominated by non-Brahmins withered away. Devadasis don&#039;t exist anymore, the merits of which we will not debate here. But their art has completely disappeared - listen to an old Veena Dhanammal recording, or of Brinda-Mukta singing a padam, and you&#039;ll know what we&#039;ve lost. Many leading Nadaswaram families are heirless - the only student of note of the Sempannarkoil brothers today is Sanjay Subramanian! Even fifty years ago, one heard of a variety of Pillais in Carnatic music outside the nadaswaram traditions - Palani Subramania Pillai (mridangam), Tiruppamburam Swaminatha Pillai (flute), Kumbakonam Rajamanickam Pillai (Violin). And there was M.L.Vasanthakumari, M.S. herself... Today, I can think of Tiruvaarur Bhaktavatsalam (mridangam) only. I&#039;ll have to search for others. 

There is a reason I mentioned sabha organisers specifically. An elderly relative of mine, who ran a sabha, told me that he stopped inviting nadaswaram vidwans because they &quot;drank too much&quot;, &quot;cleanliness didn&#039;t come naturally to non-Brahmins&quot;, they &quot;went out, ate at Military hotels&quot; and came back to his place for the night. 

(There is a (slightly academic, but) compelling account of the Brahminisation of Carnatic Music - this book called &quot;From the Tanjore Court to the Madras Music Academy&quot; by Lakshmi Subramanian or some other such respectable Tam Brahm personality. That traces this history in great detail.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know enough about the history of Hindustani music to comment, and so I&#8217;ll stay away from that part of the debate. </p>
<p>Carnatic music lost its popular appeal almost entirely due to Brahmin elitism. Briefly, with the coming of the sabha culture, and many of the organisers of the sabha being Brahmins, the temple traditions of Carnatic music (particularly, the nadaswaram tradition and the Devadasi tradition) that were dominated by non-Brahmins withered away. Devadasis don&#8217;t exist anymore, the merits of which we will not debate here. But their art has completely disappeared &#8211; listen to an old Veena Dhanammal recording, or of Brinda-Mukta singing a padam, and you&#8217;ll know what we&#8217;ve lost. Many leading Nadaswaram families are heirless &#8211; the only student of note of the Sempannarkoil brothers today is Sanjay Subramanian! Even fifty years ago, one heard of a variety of Pillais in Carnatic music outside the nadaswaram traditions &#8211; Palani Subramania Pillai (mridangam), Tiruppamburam Swaminatha Pillai (flute), Kumbakonam Rajamanickam Pillai (Violin). And there was M.L.Vasanthakumari, M.S. herself&#8230; Today, I can think of Tiruvaarur Bhaktavatsalam (mridangam) only. I&#8217;ll have to search for others. </p>
<p>There is a reason I mentioned sabha organisers specifically. An elderly relative of mine, who ran a sabha, told me that he stopped inviting nadaswaram vidwans because they &#8220;drank too much&#8221;, &#8220;cleanliness didn&#8217;t come naturally to non-Brahmins&#8221;, they &#8220;went out, ate at Military hotels&#8221; and came back to his place for the night. </p>
<p>(There is a (slightly academic, but) compelling account of the Brahminisation of Carnatic Music &#8211; this book called &#8220;From the Tanjore Court to the Madras Music Academy&#8221; by Lakshmi Subramanian or some other such respectable Tam Brahm personality. That traces this history in great detail.)</p>
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